I’m starting to think that all women are catty, no matter how nice they are or how loving they claim to be. When backed into a corner, or found in a less than pleasant situation, their claws will always come out. They attack the nearest or weakest target they can find. It makes me sick, especially when the attack is public.
Women don’t seem to realize that we are much stronger together. We can’t seem to get past our first instinct: to tear each other down so we can climb to the top. Don’t pretend that instinct isn’t there. It’s the same instinct that gets people to the top in business. It’s the same instinct that pits best friends against each other when trying to find a husband. Instead of being able to see each other as true support women see each other competition. When you think about it logically it makes no sense, but when we still seem to think tearing another person down makes us better.
Often we see the destruction of others – through their self-esteem or relationships or some other source – as our easiest pathway to success or even more basically as a means of self-defense. I’m starting to believe even if we claim, or actually are nice, the catty nature that urges us to tear other women down so we feel better still exists. It doesn’t abandon us after we graduate middle or high school. It doesn’t feel once we enter the real world. I once hoped that women in the real world would be kinder and supportive. I have learned it is quite the opposite: the catty behavior perfected in middle school never disappears it only becomes more outrageous and costly when practiced by adults.
We tear down other women’s opinions so we can feel justified in our own. We quietly point out their flaws so we feel better about ourselves. I hear compliments all the time, but mixed in is backhanded commentary on how I am worth less than the compliment I just received. I hear nice things about how I look until a guy notices me instead and I suddenly am no longer looking as nice. I hear women talking about positive body image until they are threatened and need to insult others. I see sites built to be a community of women racked with petty comments and heated fighting. I hear my friends compliment each other then proceed to people watch so they can talk shit about the other women they see. I hear so many hurtful and catty things each day that it justifies my decision to spend 90% of my time with my guy friends.
I know some women that don’t revert to this juvenile lashing out against other women, but their numbers are few. I’ve been shocked so many times in my life by women I respected once they showed me their “catty” side. I’ve often been left shell-shocked, silent for minutes or even hours, at the betrayal and hurt I felt when they directed their mean-spiritedness at me or someone else. I want to think we don’t all do this but at the end of the day I feel I can’t make that claim. I love to compliment other people but even I’ve made snarky, catty comments about women I don’t know. And it’s not even just the words. We throw evil looks toward women that look different or better or special without a second thought. That one nasty look might ruin their day but it somehow makes us feel better. We say things with our eyes and our body language that hurt just as much as words ever could.
It’s all very juvenile. It’s sad. Even worse is it’s something we never seem to grow out of no matter how much we try. But enough is enough.
When will we learn tearing down other people doesn’t make us any better?
Photo by moonwire
BRAVO!!
I love what you’re saying here. I spent a lot of my high school years dealing with bitchyness and backstabbing. When I graduated I breathed a sigh of relife… no more catty remarks and uncalled for mean-ness!
Oh lord how wrong I was!! I am not innocent either. I did my fair share of catty remarks and downright bitchyness. But I got sick of it.
I hung out with the guys as well because I couldn’t stomach the day in day out bitchfest. It’s taken me a while to actually start hanging with women again and I have to say that it still does happen sometimes. And when it does I get that churned up feeling once again…. Once again because I’ve joined in for a moment and then realised how awful it is to be on the receiving end… I don’t want to cause that feeling for another person.
Thank you for voicing your thoughts. To hear someone else voice what I’ve been thinking… marvellous.
((((massive hugs))))
I believe that is predominantly an American thing. It is certainly not very prevalent in the society I find myself in. People are much more tolerant here. This just makes it harder for me to stomach when I’m confronted with it in the blogging world.
@Hanlie
And it is soooo prevalent in the blogging world. I think the anonymity, even if you are identifiable on your blog, allows people to feel like they can be free to say whatever they want. The internet is a quite disgusting place sometimes.
You comment fascinates me. I would love to move out of the states again, and live somewhere they speak English (I had poor language skills last time). I think there is a lot wrong with American society that I would love to take a break from.
I completely agree with you. And you are not alone. I often hear my co-workers trash talking other women, for their size, their hair, their clothes. It makes me sick sometimes that people can be so callous. It is a sign of insecurity & immaturity. And unfortunately it is there at all ages. And it makes it SO much worse when it is a business setting : (
That is divisive claptrap that men use to keep us in our place!
Hi Mary,
It is true that women can be catty, I have felt this all of my life. I was always the tallest and heaviest girl in school and on top of that I wore glasses! I got shit on by girls and some boys. Kids can be really cruel sometimes. And so can adults.
I have also been lucky enough to have some amazingly supportive women in my life that have taught me how to trust.
The competition thing is hard. It does exist. I have had to let go of friendships because of this. At this point in my life, I don’t have the time or patience to allow that kind of negativity from my friends. If they can’t be authentically supportive, I can’t afford to keep them in my life. It has been hard to let go of a couple of girlfriends in the past couple of years, but I have so much more peace in my life without them. And it makes me grateful for the loving and supportive women I do have in my life.
On another note, I am following you on twitter (i am @jigsawkathleen) and I saw your tweet about the chair tonight and my heart went out to you. I have broken a few chairs in public and felt like I wanted to disappear. You impressed me that you tweeted about it. Also, the picture you took of yourself was beautiful.
Sorry, didn’t mean to be so harsh in my reply, I was upset at being labelled as mean just because I have a vag!
I am in my late forties and I have seen more men be mean to women than women being mean to women.
And I ask you this, who controls the media that tells us how to look, what to wear, what to weigh, what size dress we must wear? Women? I don’t think so!
Seriously, I am a woman and have never, NEVER been mean to another woman in my life!
WOW…….your post had me stunned for a while. And the thing is this, I do NOT agree. Why not, because such behaviour which in my opionion is not widespread, not everywhere, not always is not just a woman’s thing. It manifests itself differently in men but is there.
To paint women as worse, less kind, less honest, less supportive as men is frankly an insult to us women. The friends I have, the people I know are on the whole considerate, kind, supportive and caring people. Perhaps like Hanlie claims it is a culture thing, perhaps it is an age thing, but I doubt it is a gender thing.
I do believe this world is a hard world which demands so much from our sense of self worth, self appreciation, self love. In a world where the ideal for men and women, as we can see in magazine,movies, and commercials are almost impossible to live up to. It makes it so hard to feel, believe and know each of us is spcial, wonderful, pretty, intelligent, VALUABLE.
It is when we feel we do not make the norm, do not conform to the ideal, what people want us to be, that we tend to make others suffer, believing we will feel better that way. BUT, this is a human thing, not just a female thing.
Your post stunned me because I feel your anger/pain, and wish I could change something about it. I hope your outlook on women changes at some point in time. I for one believe we are a great sex!
BIG hug,
Willow
Personally I’ve found men to be at least as “mean” to each other as women. catty, petty, competitive, all the rest of it. The difference is that women (allowing for culture and background and other factors) tend to be more socialized to believe “getting along” is really important than men, and that fighting is a terrible thing. if I ever do find it easier to deal with men it’s because it tends to be less…subtle, a lot of the time, and less intimate/personal feeling. just a nice jolly flamefest, all in good sport, really.
…or, not (all in good sport); but at least you’re likelier to know where you stand, I’ve generally found that to be true, yeah.
on the other hand the sudden turn of men who realized you’re not gonna play along with “just one of the guys” anymore can be…ugly.
Amazing post and Im wondering if this is what youd thought about sharing at WATRD?
while I was never mean or catty (I was too mired in that ME ME ME phase for too long I think. Didnt mock others but was egocentric enough to think anyone gave a sh*t what I was doing or wearing or sayin) BUT it took me till my 30s to realize that there is ROOM ENOUGH FOR ALL OF US.
that someone else being an AMAZING WRITER doesnt diminish the power of my words.
there is room enough for us all.
Your post is very good. For me, I see women in my circle being nice, but sometimes in a superficial way. That drives me as crazy as the ones who are just plain catty!
Mary, I I have so much I would like to say on this, but I will try to keep it brief. I think much of what you write is true; however, I don’t think it is true for all. Unfortunately, the ones who exhibit this behavior are the ones that get noticed. That being said, I do think any of us is capable of doing bad things at a given time. That doesn’t mean we are a bad person though, as many times we instantly regret what we have done. We just have to learn from it, and try not to do it again the next time. Of course, an apology always helps too.
Second, I don’t think this is true only for women. Men are just plain cruel sometimes, but in a different way than the catty women. We all have a tendency to tear others down if we believe it will build us up. Fortunately, some of us eventually get to a point we see the foolishness in this. As Miz says, “there is room enough for all of us”.
I am done rambling for now. Lots of thoughts on the topic, but my mind is not together enough yet to spit it all out.
Let me add by saying this is also worse and times ten among women in the black community. If a black woman supposedly “talks white” (like me) or has long hair or has a college degree, all of a sudden she’s a bitch or a ho – and it will be said to your face. No whispering required.
Mary, I totally agree with you. Although I do think women are more catty than men, I think all of us are involved in this culture of criticising. My big irritation right now is reality TV, where seemingly the only goal is tearing others down or delighting in the humiliation of others. I hate that young people are growing up with a steady diet of this, thinking it is behavior to be emulated.
I’m wondering, did something in particular happen to prompt this post? Would love to know the particular details. God, is that catty? I hope not. I try very hard to be diplomatic with all people, but I think the older you get (I’ll be 40 this year), the more that is true for both genders.
Good post! I think a lot of the catty behavior comes from insecurities, making oneself feel better. And it’s a learned behavior, early on in life. And somehow, it’s hard to get rid of. I think it’s also easier to recognize in others than ourselves.
I was shocked and very hurt a few months ago, when a friend whom I have known for many, many years, and considered myself close to, put me down in front of others for really no reason. She tried to make it funny, but it was really simply mean.
But you know, you are so right, I have judged others unfairly. I may not have said anything, but looks alone can be so hurtful…. (I hope that I am much more conscious of this today than years ago….) I think we all need to be conscious of our thoughts and behavior…
On the other hand, I also have to say that I have a few close female friends who have been my friends for all of my adulthood (20 years), who are truly supportive and amazing and who have never put me or anyone else down (as far as I can tell).
I’m echoing Amy M here – did an event occur that prompted this post? As a man, I’m used to competition from other males, but not the catty behavior you mention here. We’re pretty much just dicks to one-another’s faces.
I agree with others, that this is something both sexes do, perhaps in different ways, but for me it hurts more when I hear women doing it, even to other women. And I can’t think of a single woman who has not had something catty to say at some point. You do hope that there will be a camaraderie amongst women, that we’ll all be in it together. When I hear or see people do things to make that difficult or impossible, it’s a little like learning there’s no tooth fairy.
ALL:
I know men do this too, however in my experience they do not do it as much. Yes I realize not all women are like this. So yes to men and yes to not all women comments. I agree with you. Take this post with a grain of salt and don’t believe I’m generalizing or not thinking about the other side (men). This is prompted by a particular circumstance that although I don’t want to bring attention to it, showed me that even those with the best intentions will lash out hurtfully when they are feeling insecure.
@MizFit
It is what I was thinking in response to the whole deal at WATRD. Maybe if I had explained that it would have been clear as to why I pinpointed WOMEN even though it is a PEOPLE thing. But I honestly didn’t want to draw any more attention to a negative situation.
@Yum Yucky
I live in Memphis and yeah… I’ve noticed.
@Beth Lamb
I didn’t even realize that additional influence, but I’ve been watching a lot of reality tv in the last couple of days. That is an extreme rarely found in real life but those are real women on the shows that are exhibiting the worst possible behavior.
I completely agree! While i was always teased by boys growing up, for being the “chunky” girl, the girls were the ones that made me feel worthless. I could handle the stupid boy comments, they were said to their friends for a laugh, and not much thought put into them. Comparing me to a cow, or just plain saying “your fat!”, bouncing down the hallway apparently immitating how i walk (i personally don’t recall making “BABOOM BABOOM” noises and swaying to and fro while i went down the hallway, but okay!) was as creative as they could get, and they pretty much stuck with the same words all the time. But the girls, they were a completely different breed. Their words stung. They not only made fun of how fat i was, they cut me down, belittled me, made me feel like since i was fat, that made me stupid and ugly and not worthy of friends. They were the ones that made me cry every night.
Eventually i got stronger, i stuck up for myself, i fought back. And it may not have stopped, it atleast got to a point where i could finally ignore it. Yes, i still felt worthless, but atleast i never showed it anymore.
I too thought that once i got older it would stop. Like they’d all mature, get a life of their own so they’d stop concentrating so hard on mine. But it didn’t. And for a long time, i turned into a mean person, who i hated! I became bitter with the entire world because i was so sick of the judgements and the competitions. I met a woman at a new job or wherever and i immediately didn’t like her. I saw the bad in everyone and wouldn’t allow myself to see any good.
Now, i’m different. I’ve had a lot of things happen in my life that has opened my eyes to all the beauty in the world. And no, none of the catty women have disappeared. They’re all still there. But i’ve just been lucky i guess. I’ve found a good group of girls just like me. We’re not perfect, we’re not stick thin, we’re not gorgeous. But we’re not worthless, and we’re deffinately not judgemental.
Great post Mary. I can completely understand how you’re feeling. Sometimes those women can be overwhelming and absolutely everywhere!
What gets me is the pain from mean comments, made by boys/girls/men/women, lingers for years. We have to learn to be more supportive of people. Tearing someone else down doesn’t make you better, more popular, funnier or prettier. If you think that of yourself, your “friends” are too scared to say anything against you for fear that they’ll be criticized next.
I know you know it’s not just women… believe me if you’ve spent ANY time being in the same house as a man for any length of time, they are just as competitive, catty and nasty as women – and what’s more, they get to get away with it without being called BITCHY! If they’re puffing their chests out and acting like Cock on the Wall, they’re just being Manly, and male-bonding and whatever you want to call it.
Personally, when my husband puts on his Big Dick on the Block hat and struts around, bashing another guy, or trying to intimidate one, I just want to crawl under the sofa. It’s embarrassing to watch.
I know I’m just as guilty as being catty/bitchy/mean as anyone (everyone?) else. I knock on some people for their lack of cooking skills, for being stupid in their love life, for being too fat/too skinny/too whatever. I used to spend a lot of time berating myself for it, and then realized that even when I was trying to “be nice” I was mentally “Oh, I’m nicer than she is” and damn, it’s just a vicious circle of viciousness.
So I gave up trying. I’m as supportive as I want to be, and if I’m going to be catty, I at least try to keep it to myself. Trying to live up to being nothing but nice, to me, was like trying to live up to being Barbie, and while I’m at it, I should be Julia Childs, Martha Stewart, Mommy of the Year, etc etc.
I can’t be perfectly nice, perfectly healthy, perfectly good looking, perfectly smart, a great cook, a good lay, etc etc. Forget it. I’m following the cult of MizFit and being unapologetically myself. If I offend someone from time to time, so be it. If I’m snarky from time to time… good for me.
Oddly enough, since I decided to stop *trying* so hard, I’m finding DOING to be loads easier.
I hate to say that I was like this when I was younger stemming from insecurities, self dislike & jealousy. One of the good things with age, it betters that. This is very prevalent among women for sure. And like MizFit, there is so much talent out there in the blogging world but we all still have something good to say. It is important to see al perspectives.
I wonder if the media a& that push to make women think they have to be so perfect has something to do with it. They start those “pretty shows” for very young girls now. I know it effected me.
Such a great post Mary!!!! .
Agreed. When will it stop?? I’m the youngest of 5 girls. It’s worse in the family than elsewhere. Sisters can really treat eachother worse than a stranger on the street.
Thanks for this very well written post.
great post Merry—I totally agree!
I feel like I live my life in a constant state of high school, where I never quite fit in. My neighborhood is FULL of ‘Judgy McJudgersons’ and I’ve learned there are very few people who are really my friend.
At the same time, I cannot claim 100% innocence, I am sure I am guilty on some level myself. I don’t want to be though, I guess it is a form of defense?
I wish I had an answer for you, but it seems like it is starting earlier and earlier with kids these days. It makes me thankful that I have boys.
Mary,
I do not see this much in real life. This may be because I’m completely intolerant of BS mind games and call people out or remove myself from situations where they arise. Maybe I’m not a good “player” therefore I’m not included in the cattiness game (and quite possibly making myself a victim? Hmmmm…)
Where I do see this is the blogosphere and message boards online. And it’s sad but I’ve kind of considered it just a fact of cyberspace. While I was disappointed by the WATRD post yesterday it was just one contributors post and I hold out hope that the collective efforts of everyone else involved on that site will make up for it and help me overlook what happened.
Still, while I don’t think it’s a necessary epidemic among females in society, very good post. If anything reminds people to stop and think “have I been unnecessarily mean recently?” it can’t be all that bad.
BE NICE PEOPLE! :-)
i love your header. it is so cute! and thought provoking post~i am so glad that i get along with everyone. back when i was younger girls were MEAN but i think i am past having any acquaintances like that, luckily.
HI Merry,
I had two brothers growing up so I thinik I am a little more guylike than some women. I hate to say that what your saying is true, but it is- in quite a few circumstances. I am thinking particularly of thin women who have a fat freind. When their friend is fat and complimentary and malleable, thin girl loves to hang out. After all, fat girl is a nice foil to thin girls thinness and attractiveness. When Fat girl drops some pounds,thin girl gives compliments like ‘wow, that outfit sure slims your thighs” Or “Isn’t it great that (whatever guy is looking at you and not her) he can see what a great person you are.” Or my favorite ‘He must like curvy women” As if it took a monumental man of strength and character (who apparently can see your inner beauty manifest itself magically on your person) long enough to see past your fattitude. Maybe it was your thigh slimming outfit. you are talking about insecurity, backstabbing, backhanded compliments, snide facial expressions and a distancing once you aren’t their perfect fat foil anymore. I would say 15-20% percent of women fall into that category. I just think you have recently had the misfortune to stumble into a gaggle of them. Keep getting thinner and prettier and they will disappear. No worries. In the meantime, be encouraging to other women….be genuinely happy for other people and their success and you will attract like minded people.
Hugs,
Chris
You said it, sister! Gosh, I’ve been dealing with this a lot, and in my own freaking FAMILY lately. All my girl cousins are growing up, so they’re all in high school now, and it’s just ridiculous. Just this weekend, we had an overnight stay at the casino, and one of my cousins said, “I left the other two so they could talk about you. I know they talk about me when I’m not there, too.” (We’re going through major issues. Well… I don’t have a problem, but you know when you’re young, everything seems like the end of the world. :P)
I used to just hope and wait for them to grow up and get into college and hopefully get over their “cattyness”… but such hope has dwindled over the years.
I pride myself in being as much of a non-gossip as possible. But I think it’s cuz I’ve been such a victim to it in my own family over the last few years… So sometimes I think maybe if these girls got a taste of their own medicine, they might stop. I guess I’ll just have to wait and see.
Kudos, as usual, Mary dearest. :)
Wow, this post really made me think. But as I’ve grown older, and yes, wiser, I’ve learned that most women who tear other women down just have some of their own hang-ups, issues (self-esteem, that they’re not deserving, whatever) and don’t truly love themselves (for whatever reason). I mean, we all have some issues, but when women truly (and I mean truly) love themselves, they are happy and don’t do this catty stuff.
I must say I don’t agree: we tear each other down so we can climb to the top…. It’s the same instinct that gets people to the top in business.
Though I’ve seen it, those who tear each other down eventually topple themselves even in business. It cannot and does not last. It always catches up with them. And I’ve worked deep in the trenches of the areas of business where cattiness does exist — but those are not the majority the women at the top.
I’ve been in circles, jobs, professions, communities, etc where this “tearing down” existed and I just left. Out. Gone. Don’t want to be around it or a part of it. Like they say, “You’re the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with” (or hang out with). So I changed my circle.
Personally I love when other women do well, become successful, find the sexy man of the dreams — and just find true happiness. It makes me happy to see them happy. But I know until they are truly happy with themselves, they will never see the brilliance in anyone else.
And I don’t think I’m wearing rose-colored glasses. I’ve had situations where I’ve been stabbed so hard I can’t believe I’m still alive. But I got up, brushed myself off, and distanced myself from such negativity. And I made it part of my life’s purpose to never do it to someone else.
I adore bringing other women UP, and not down. And I truly believe if we keep doing it, it will start a chain reaction.
WOW! Great post! My favorite part is how girls/women bring out the claws once the girl leaves the room and she is torn to shreds… why do we do this? It’s been something that i have really had to learn to stay away from.
Encouragement brings so much more joy than tearing someone down!
You must live in the Northeast!
“Scratch the surface of any woman… and she’ll enjoy it.”
“Oh sure we have witches in the 20th century. We just pronounce the word differently.”
– Van Johnson, in Brigadoon
Wow! Awesome post!
I’ll admit Ive been guilty of being catty. But I have really worked on myself the last couple of years. I’d like to say that soon I will be completely rid of this “illness”. I do believe these attitudes stem from insecurity & sometimes we tell ourselves we are talking about this person ” because we are concerned about them”! Psh… So untrue!
Girls are mean, women are mean! But we don’t have to be that way!! Let’s remember to raise people up and live the Golden Rule!
Be the change you wish to see in the world!!!
Hi, I stumbled across your site while avoiding work yesterday ;) I’m a male and I work in an office that’s about 95% women. I always thought cattiness was a thing that was only regulated to our school years. But, oh boy, was I wrong. I don’t know why women feel the need to criticize each other so much. We’ve had women who quit their jobs in the middle of the day because of constant bickering. I’ve seen women in tears at their desks because of the way they are being talked about. I just don’t understand it.
Now I understand that this type of behavior is indicative of all women but I just can’t avoid it where I am.
This is so true. And frustrating!!!
I think they cant be change because this the nature of women.